"Enthusiast" Versus Enthusiast

"Lets Just Drive" (lets-just-drive) 09/27/2013 at 22:32 • Filed to: None

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In conversation, an acquaintance described himself as an enthusiast. We were talking about cars, or more over, he was spewing misinformation and I was busily correcting him when he said, verbatim, "An enthusiast should know better." He was talking about himself. I corrected him and said, "You mean "enthusiast" ?" Air quotes and all.

Context; we constantly bust balls.

Got me thinking, how would you describe an enthusiast, versus an "enthusiast" Oppo?

Where does posing end and genuine enthusiasm begin? When does a poseur become the real deal?

GhostZ > Lets Just Drive 09/27/2013 at 22:41

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It has to do with emotion. To be an enthusiast means you have to be enthused with some display of your enthusiasm.

Knowledge or experience with cars isn't really required, but obviously the degree of involvement (which I would measure as "how much you've given up to feed your enthusiasm) is an indicator of quality. You could further go and tier-list enthusiasm by how much effort is put into it, designating sub-sections for "racer" and such.

Let me put it this way: A cocaine enthusiast is someone who displays an enthusiasm for doing cocaine. Someone who does cocaine does not have to be a cocaine enthusiast (driving a car, even an 'enthusiast' car, does not make one an enthusiast) knowing the chemical compounds of cocaine does not make one an enthusiast, and spending tons of money and time to acquire only the purest and most effective cocaine does not make one an enthusiast, those are just indicators of how deep the enthusiasm is.

I think its less of a matter of the word being thrown out too much, as it is an assumption of quality/capability associated with it. That's like saying "I drive a car" and people assume that by 'driving' I mean I can race an F1 car, or that I know how to work on a car. Yes, I am still a driver, but those other associations are on top of that, and not necessarily required to be a 'driver'.

Tom McParland > Lets Just Drive 09/27/2013 at 22:43

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I can't answer your question because I can't stop looking at that gif....but I will try. An "enthusiast" starts to become an enthusiast when they stop seeing the automotive landscape in black and white. As in all X brand/country is good and all Y brand/country is bad. Both types can spout specs till they are blue in the face...but only a true enthusiast looks beyond the numbers and judges a car's worth holistically....this by the way is one of the main components of my next installment of "Thinking Too Deeply About Cars" I will talk about my own evolution from "enthusiast" to enthusiast. So thank you for giving me a jump start to keep working on that. :)

BJohnson11 > Lets Just Drive 09/27/2013 at 22:46

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I mean, if you get down to the pure definition of it, an enthusiast is really anyone who is genuinely enthused about cars or motorsport or all of that.

Now, when it comes to knowing facts about specific cars, sure, a car guy that reads a lot of magazines and internet websites might now a lot more specific details about a given car, but someone who doesn't have that knowledge isn't necessarily not an enthusiast.

So what I'm rambling on about is basically, if you have a genuine interest in cars, then go ahead and call yourself an enthusiast. Now, not all car enthusiasts are the same and not all of us will have the same interests or areas of expertise, but as long as you have an interest in cars that is valid, you're OK in my book.

GhostZ > Tom McParland 09/27/2013 at 22:52

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Enthusiasts: The Frederich Nietzsches of the automotive world.

I think you're completely right, but I also feel that there is a huge enthusiasm from getting the numbers of the car. The thing is, just not the only published numbers. For example, a person can research a car and hate transverse leaf springs. They may think all modern cars with transverse leaf springs have an inferior design and can break a car's holistic value compared to a strut and coil system. They can have these black-and-white opinions, but they can base them off of real statistics about how that suspension affects handling.

I guess its sort of a "make sure there's some real, scientific basis behind that black and white opinion, if you have one" is my view.

Tom McParland > GhostZ 09/27/2013 at 22:57

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Don't get me wrong numbers and geek-specs are awesome I was more speaking of the folks that say "this car is better than that car because it has more horsepower or something" as you pointed out you need to see the bigger picture... chassis design, sales segment, etc...

Atomic Buffalo > Lets Just Drive 09/27/2013 at 22:57

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Anyone who would dismiss the enthusiasm of another is an "enthusiast."

Lets Just Drive > GhostZ 09/27/2013 at 22:58

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The cocaine analogy; pure, uncut dope. That made me laugh.

And the thing is, I tend to agree. Enthusiasm comes in varying degrees of intensity and commitment and to say that one degree is not enthusiast enough is probably counter productive and a little hypocritical. Can one person be more enthusiastic than another? Absolutely, but the increased level of enthusiasm from one does not discredit the other as being an enthusiast as well.

I think you're right that we tend to toss these labels around too willy-nilly and get personally insulted when someone less enthusiastic than ourselves claims to be a fellow enthusiast. You think, "Hold on, I've spent thousands of dollars and man hours in pursuit of my enthusiasm, and you've just purchased an '05 Mazda 3?" And that's natural, right? I mean, we're an elitist bunch. So maybe the other guy is just getting into the passion, maybe encouraging him to describe himself (or herself, sorry ladies) as an "enthusiast" will only encourage said enthusiasm, grow it.

But that's the "good guy" side of things.

On the other side, we have us... a bunch of know-it-all gearheads who won't be lumped together with those "enthusiast" guys with their stock Mazda 6's (I don't know why I'm attacking Mazda right now?!) who claim to be part of the hobby, or the sport, but they're really just dilettantes flirting with us from the fringes of the hobby. These are the guys who, behind closed doors, will remark to one another, "That fucking Mark, at work, and his fucking Mazda 5. I'm really getting tired of the way he talks. Like, I get it. You've read the most recent Road & Track or seen the latest videos on Motor Trends YouTube channel. But he's never driven anything outside of that fucking Mazda and whatever his parents owned... did you know he grew up in Chicago? Like, in the city. Leslie told me his parents didn't even own a car until after he went off to University... but he'll sit there and preach at you about the ride in the new Four series like he's driven the fucking thing..."

I've totally lost my train of thought.

Lets Just Drive > Atomic Buffalo 09/27/2013 at 23:01

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I get that was a dig at me and all, but you should know that the person in question was neither discouraged nor dismissed by my comments as it was pure ball busting. But it was the event that got me thinking, hence the stated impetus.

On a larger scale, I'd tend to agree up to a point. Especially where people who can't take a joke or a jibe are concerned because, and I've discussed this countless times, the hobby is full of ball busting - hell, it's par for the course. So if you're an enthusiast who needs to be hand-held and molly-coddled all the way through, then I'd say you're probably only an "enthusiast" when it suits you (not you, of course, but the grand "you").

Squid > GhostZ 09/27/2013 at 23:07

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Here is the structure of the cocaine molecule. That being said, you don't want compounds in your cocaine, no body likes snorting baby laxative. . .

You are spot on with the analogy.

Lets Just Drive > BJohnson11 09/27/2013 at 23:10

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Gary says he loves cars. He spends his days on the internet, reading reviews and watching videos. He owns one car, and it's mid-range at best, but spends almost no time working on it. He's never been to the track and he's driven a few cars.

Hank spends his days working. He gets home and finds time to wrench on his current project car. He has a few cars, he works on all of them. He's never bothered with the internet and gets his information from the horses mouth. He couldn't tell you the specific power of a Bugatti Veyron, but Gary can, though he can tell you the bolt pattern and firing order of any Ford circa 1960-1970. On the weekends, he's always found at the track.

Are they both enthusiasts? Is one more enthusiastic than the other?

GhostZ > Lets Just Drive 09/27/2013 at 23:11

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There should be higher designations. If you own a supercar, you've spent the time and effort to be considered a higher-caliber enthusiast. Likewise, if you put 1000s of man-hours into working on, improving, and learning about cars, you're probably on a high level too, even if you're broke and don't own a car. It just means that you've gotten your fix from something other than driving. A lot of aeroplane enthusiasts are the same way: few have ever flown a plane, but they spend their time learning facts.

The guy is just trying to get more respect for his enthusiasm. He probably really likes cars, but he just doesn't know what /have anything to put him on the path to learning. I'd suggest he go to a track day, or read up some more if he really likes cars. You can't stop his bullshit, but maybe you can teach him the ways of the Jedi, so to say, to save him from the dark (douchey) side.

That being said, if he grew up in Chicago, there's always Lake Shore Drive... that will weed out the real drivers from the posers pretty fast. ;)

Lets Just Drive > GhostZ 09/27/2013 at 23:19

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That's a valid point.

And access to your passions is also an issue for many people. There are a lot of people who'd readily describe themselves as enthusiasts whose only access to the world of motoring is vicariously, say, via the internet or magazines. For others, they grew up in a gearhead household and were around wrenchers from an early age. And everything in between.

I suppose it would be pretty arrogant to say that one person isn't an enthusiast because of their geographical, physical or financial limitations. In fact, if someone, limited in their exposure in one way or another, fully explores all available avenues... even if none of them involve driving or wrenching, I'd say that person is still fully qualified as an enthusiast.

Atomic Buffalo > Lets Just Drive 09/27/2013 at 23:24

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Nah, ball-busting is not dismissing. I mean a car guy who legitimately loathes or ridicules those of lesser knowledge or lesser skill is the one posing (as in look at me I'm a capital-e Enthusiast) and deserving of begged-meaning quotation marks.

The goal of an enthusiast should never be to put the damper on someone else's enthusiasm. Friendly ball-busting and boasting is just part of fraternity, even reality-checking when needed, but you should want to draw people in not keep people out.

Lets Just Drive > Atomic Buffalo 09/27/2013 at 23:31

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I am in complete agreement with you.

Sadly, I must admit that I have been guilt of said same crime in the past, that is; calling out those of apparently lesser knowledge or questionable taste as being somehow inferior. Thankfully, I've been met in turn by those willing to call me out on being an overbearing McDouche sandwich - I've been checked by reality so many times you'd think I was playing Stanley Cup hockey against it. I do honestly believe, however, that most if not all of us are guilty of the same, though none should be proud of it.

Let's not leave aside the question of character, and how others react to that persona. There are many who are naturally arrogant and dismissive who, coming into this or any other hobby, refuse to learn and instead rush headlong in and readily bowl aside those who've been there for ages. These, I feel, are the individuals best described by the rest of us as "enthusiasts" if only in the hope that they'll cool their jets, or their heels, and stop behaving in a manner which, regardless of the hobby, is unacceptable. So, there's the issue of the person and their behavior as well.

Victorious Secret > Tom McParland 09/27/2013 at 23:39

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I was once told, and now tell others, that just being able to rattle off specs does not make you an enthusiast.

Some people don't even care for specs.

Rather, its the emotional commitment. I like to think of myself as a automotive and ice hockey enthusiast. Can I rattle off specs and stats? Sure, sometimes. But the collective sum is that I am so invested in both categories that hardly a day goes by that I'm not engaged in shenanigans related to either.

I see the field in shades of grey, I find it hard to be very black or white at all unless you ask me "Ferrari or Lamborghini" at which point my brain will give up for the inability of answering such a question.

Tom McParland > Lets Just Drive 09/27/2013 at 23:40

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This! I wish had grown around those that can wrench or built a car with my dad. But he was a computer guy and in suburban S. Jersey fixing cars wasn't really a thing in the early 90's. And I wish in could hit track more but my funds and time is limited with a job and family. But I try to learn as much as I can from whoever I can...even if that means hanging out too much on Oppo.

ddavidn > Lets Just Drive 09/27/2013 at 23:49

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I am currently Gary. Except I also spend my days working. They're probably both enthusiasts.

Lets Just Drive > ddavidn 09/27/2013 at 23:52

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There are a lot of Gary's.

Captain_Overboost > Tom McParland 09/27/2013 at 23:52

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ddavidn > Lets Just Drive 09/27/2013 at 23:54

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True. Someday, I'd like to be a lot closer to Hank. Although, I guess I do work on my cars quite a bit. You know, to keep them starting and/or running...

Lets Just Drive > ddavidn 09/27/2013 at 23:56

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Here's something you may not know...

... Hank and Gary both work for Motor Trend. Their names have been changed to protect their identities.

ddavidn > Lets Just Drive 09/28/2013 at 00:21

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I thought those guys were all Garys...

BJohnson11 > Lets Just Drive 09/28/2013 at 00:26

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I'd say yes, but then I'd say enthusiast is too broad of a term. They're enthusiasts for completely different reasons, and if they ever met, they might not be able to have a coherent conversation about cars, but I'd say, yes, they're both enthusiasts, just in different ways.

That said, Gary's interest seems faint. Like I said, an enthusiast should have a valid, true interest (and that should have read near-0bsession) with cars.

For the record, I'm more towards the Hank side of things, and I like to consider myself more of an enthusiast than the Gary's of the world, but I've had conversations with people like that, and they've out-knowledged me on cars and I can bet you they also thought they were more of an enthusiast than I.

So it's a tough question (and a great one), but I think if you have an interest in cars, like I said before, you're OK in my book.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > Lets Just Drive 09/28/2013 at 00:50

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To me, it's always been when one stops showing off and appreciates the machinery for itself, whatever car it is.

For example, there are a lot of "enthusiasts" in my hometown who drive their 1.0 liter econoboxes tricked out with plastic spoilers, F&F style decals and fart cans to the local gas stations and crank their sound systems (which cost more than the car) to 11 in order to outloud everyone else's cars. Those guys don't really think of their cars as cars, but as fashion accessories used to gather more attention. If they could get chicks by wearing a watermelon on top of their heads, they would do so.

On the other side of the spectrum, there are the real enthusiasts, people who actually like the cars for what they are, spend their time and money upgrading the way it runs and corners instead of the way it looks and sounds and take part in the rare Trackdays we have at the few local tracks instead of trying to get chicks at a gas station.

Finally, like I already said up there, what car one drives hardly dictates whether one is an enthusiast or not. Case in point, both cars pictured here are Chevrolet Celtas, but the top one has a 1.0 liter engine and no mechanical upgrades aside from an unspecified kind of sports exaust.

While the second Celta has all kinds of go fast parts, from the stripped interior to disc brake conversion and slicks, to a turbo 1.4 liter engine bored over to 1.8 liter with cold air intake.

And that, to me, is the difference between enthusiasts and "enthusiasts"

Lets Just Drive > ddavidn 09/28/2013 at 01:06

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I don't know why, but: Ooooh, burn!

Lets Just Drive > BJohnson11 09/28/2013 at 01:09

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That's an interesting observation and a phenomenon I've witnessed first hand, where some car guys get together but due to their different interests in the same hobby, can't have a coherent conversation without cursing and insults.

ddavidn > Lets Just Drive 09/28/2013 at 01:15

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You got it ;)

Atomic Buffalo > Lets Just Drive 09/28/2013 at 02:14

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Amen.

Meatcoma > Lets Just Drive 10/01/2013 at 10:22

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I'm a little bit of both. I don't track on the weekends, but I would if I had the time/money. My job is in IT so I get time to read reviews and watch videos. I own a variance of cars. I've driven some decent cars but nothing extraordinary. I work on my cars as much as I can and I enjoy it.

I don't really call myself an "enthusiast" because I don't visit every car show that's within 100 miles, I don't have a project car and I don't do all the work on my cars.

But I like cars more than 90% of my co-workers and only a few of them work on their own cars, some even ask me for advice and I always tell them that they can do it themselves and all it takes is a little bit of time.